Television Interview

O'REILLY: And in the "impact" segment tonight, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger believes everybody in his state should have healthcare, including the children of illegal aliens and perhaps the illegals themselves.

The governor says he'll raise taxes on doctors and hospitals to pay for the $12 billion program. Those increased taxes, of course, will be passed on to the patients.

Joining us now from San Francisco to explain the situation, Sally Pipes, author of the book "Miracle Cure: How to Solve America's Healthcare Crisis and Why Canada Isn't the Answer."

All right, Ms. Pipes, the governor says that look, California right now illegal aliens, and there are more than a million of them, perhaps as many as three or four million, are going to emergency rooms and the hospitals where they, by law, cannot be turned away. No one can be. And this is imposing such a financial burden on the state, that it's cheaper for the state of California to give illegals, particularly their children, free healthcare. What say you?

SALLY PIPES, PACIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Well the governor, as you said, has announced the $12 billion healthcare plan so that all Californians will be covered. One of the things he's worried about is there are 6.5 million Californians who don't have health insurance. Just because you don't have insurance doesn't mean you don't get health coverage. Everyone that turns up in an emergency room doesn't necessarily not pay.

But you know, how do you deal with the situation of the people that aren't insured? And you know, we have ways to deal with that. If there weren't so many regulations and mandates on insurance, insurance companies could offer, you know, lower cost packages that individuals could buy insurance.

O'REILLY: Yes, but let's -- I don't want to deal with pie in the sky. I want to deal with right now. OK, right now.

PIPES: So.

O'REILLY: .the state of California is under siege by illegal immigration. We know that. We know that.

PIPES: We do, yes.

O'REILLY: And most of it's the federal government's fault. But some of it's the state's fault. The state doesn't mobilize the Guard and do what it could do.

So already, Californians are paying the emergency room costs for illegal aliens and their children.

PIPES: Right.

O'REILLY: So Governor Schwarzenegger says, look, I want to mainstream these people. It'll be cheaper. Do you believe it's going to be cheaper?

PIPES: No, I don't believe it's going to be cheaper. I'll tell you why. Because first of all, if we provide health insurance, just like we provide welfare and education for illegal aliens, think about people that are illegal in other states. We're going to get a huge influx of illegal immigrants into California. And that's going to make it even more expensive.

O'REILLY: Well, that's an interesting point. So you - all right, so it's the magnet approach.

PIPES: It is.

O'REILLY: There are only three other states that have this, Massachusetts, Vermont, and Maine. All right, those are the only other states that do this.

So you believe that all the other illegal aliens in the country would say hey, look at California, I can move there and get free healthcare?

PIPES: Well, and exactly. And what about if you live in Mexico or you know, you say well I think now is my opportunity to go to California. I don't have good healthcare here. And I'm going to have a family. So it's a magnet, just like homeless people come to San Francisco.

O'REILLY: Interesting point. Interesting point.

All right, now in Canada, they give everybody free healthcare. Doesn't it work up there?

PIPES: Well, no, unfortunately, it doesn't. Because when you have a single payer, and the government is the only payer -- you know, when government finds that people think things are free and therefore people demand a lot more of it, it costs too much. So how does government deal with the program that costs too much?

They have to cut back somehow. So in Canada, you have long waiting lists for care. 17.9 weeks over 4 months from seeing a primary care doctor to seeing a specialist. You have ration care. And you have a lack of technological equipment. Canadians have an escape valve. They come to America. A lot of Canadians come to America.

O'REILLY: So you're a dual American-Canadian citizen, so you know what you're talking about.

All right, so you say that the single payer system in Canada, where the government pays all the healthcare there for everybody, including illegal immigrants, if you show up in Canada you can be right on the dole, everything all day long, leads to a back up.

PIPES: Of course, that's if you.

O'REILLY: Go ahead.

PIPES: If you can get a doctor. There are 3.2 million Canadians who don't even have a primary care doctor.

O'REILLY: OK, so you say it leads to chaos and all kinds of way. Now getting back to California. So the solution in California with three million people undocumented and their children is what in the healthcare area? What's the solution for these people?

PIPES: Well the thing is that, you know, if we took away all the mandates and regulations -- first of all, these people I think should become like myself, you know, at some point become legal and become Americans.

But for the 6.5 million Californians who don't have health insurance, 85 percent of them are working people. We need to cut out the regulations and mandates so that these people can afford to buy insurance, because insurance companies could then provide a cheaper insurance package.

And we'll get a lot of people. Look at all the young men who are like 30, 28-years old, who are making $50,000, who don't have health insurance. They think, you know, they're healthy forever. Why should I buy insurance when I can take a girl on a date? I can make a car payment. You know, people make decisions based on cost.

O'REILLY: All right. So you think that the answer is in the private sector?

PIPES: Yes.

O'REILLY: I'm not sure about that, Ms. Pipes, but we appreciate you coming on the program tonight.

Coming next, the ABC television network is a big, big problem with this Trump-O'Donnell-Walters situation. We'll take a close look at it moments away.

Sally C. Pipes is the President and CEO of the Pacific Research Institute, a California-based think tank. She can be reached via email at spipes@pacificresearch.org.